Curse

Spider of the UW · May 10, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Is it better to get a Crit mask or a Dagger mask?

UP and Downs of both?

what is th insig/rune combo for a PvE sin?

Paul Dawg · May 10, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

It depends on your build. Generally, you want 13 in Critical Strikes, but that can be 11+1+1 or 12+1. Normally, you'll want the highest Dagger Mastery score possible, so you'd be 12+1+1 Dagger Master and 12+1 Critical Strikes.

But, again, it depends on your build.

Curseman · May 10, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

13 is the breakoff point for getting more energy out of critical strikes, so unless your build is using more critical strikes skills than dagger mastery skills, 12 in critical strikes + 1 from a minor rune should be fine, if your point spread allows it.

Another thing worth mentioning though, is that a critical strikes mask will still be useful if you decide to try using something like a bow, an axe, or a scythe.

As for runes and insignia, in pve you have a good amount of flexibility. My preference, and the general preference in pvp is to use +health insignia, and minor attribute runes to make sure that you have as much health as possible.

Like I said though, in pve you can get away with more, so don't feel too constricted by that if you want to try something different.

Revelations · May 10, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56

If you're using daggers then 12+1+1 Dagger Mastery / 12+1 Critstrikes is the usual way to go.

If you need a decent rank utility attribute then consider 12+1 Dagger Mastery / 10+2+1 Critstrikes / 8(+1 if applicable) Utility Attribute. For some utility skills an attribute of 3(+1) will suffice though.

If you're using a non assassin weapon then 12 Weapon Mastery / 12+1+1 Critstrikes.

In any case, the 13 breakpoint for critstrikes is pretty damn nice in PvE, plus it increases the duration on your IAS/I'm as strong and brave as a warrior now skill if you have Nightfall. Weapon mastery is also important to keep high. Choose your runes/hats according to these general guidelines.

MuC · May 10, 2009, 01:19 PM // 13:19

I have 12+1+1 on Crit. I'm only playing Crit Scythe build. Not rly interested in playing Dagger Mastery cuz Crit Scythe is kinda big domag.

Bobby2 · May 10, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

+1/+1 dagger (mask)
+1 critical (gloves)
Sup. Vigor (chest)
optional [Vitae] x2 (leggings, boots)

full Survivor's insignia

Paul Dawg · May 10, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Not necessarily--especially not if you're doing PvE. I usually put Survivor on chest, Radiant on legs, and Nightstalker everywhere else. For PvP, Nightstalker is a lot less useful, of course, but I'm still not sure I'd want five Survivors.

And of course if you're doing permasin, you want Radiant on all pieces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

full Survivor's insignia

_Nihilist_ · May 12, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

+2e from Radiant on the legs, then extra armor if you get hit on the Gloves, Boots, and Head? Statistically speaking, you have a lower chance to get hit in those 3 places, why not put Radiants on those as well and get a nice even +5e?

It gives you the same benefit of having Radiant on Chest/Legs and Survivor on Head/Gloves/Boots (+5e and +15hp), but depending on the cost of the Insignias, could run cheaper by a few gold...

Just my .02... I run with full Survivors for the most part if it's not a PermaSF build, but I'm looking at the benefit of damage reduction over time with armor insignias vs. static +40hp increase from full Survivors.

Edit:

Gotcha, Paul. You didn't list runes used, so I did not know that you were using an Attunement or two. Not what I would do personally, but to each his/her own.

Paul Dawg · May 12, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Well, all I was saying is that five Survivors isn't necessarily the best combination for PvE. I put a single Radiant on the legs because the +2e is nice, and putting it anywhere else seems like diminishing returns to me. I'm going to be using an Attunement or two as well, after all. (Same reason why I put a single Survivor on the chest, really.)

But the real point is that the +15 armor from Nightstalker is really good in PvE. You're basically always going to be attacking, and most damage you'll sustain in PvE is not armor-ignoring.

Jaigoda · May 13, 2009, 03:10 AM // 03:10

If Nightstalker's is so good in PvE, then why are you running it on your feet hands and head where the three combined only have a 3/8 chance of activating, when you could do the same thing by putting a single one on the chest? Seriously, Survivor should be on the head/gloves/boots, with the legs and chest being armor. Or just go full Survivor/Nightstalkers.

I also have a thing against radiants. +5e on daggers is alright since it sacrifices very little damage, but energy from radiants or attunements is wasting health that is vital in PvE to not attract the aggro.

Paul Dawg · May 13, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Because +15 health with Survivor on the chest is equivalent to 3x(+5) health with Survivor on the head, gloves, and boots. Once again, I'm having a hard time following your math. Survivor on chest and Nightstalker on the head, gloves, and boots is equivalent to Nightstalker on chest and Survivor on the head, gloves, and boots, no? They balanced the hit percentages on armor pieces and the health bonuses on Survivor runes for a reason.

Seriously, if Nightstalker sucked so bad, it wouldn't be about 900g at the rune trader. All I'm saying is that full Survivor may make sense for PvP, but for PvE I'm hardly convinced that Survivor is better than Nightstalker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

If Nightstalker's is so good in PvE, then why are you running it on your feet hands and head where the three combined only have a 3/8 chance of activating, when you could do the same thing by putting a single one on the chest? Seriously, Survivor should be on the head/gloves/boots, with the legs and chest being armor. Or just go full Survivor/Nightstalkers.

Jaigoda · May 13, 2009, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Never ever use prices as prices as indicative of how good in battle. I mean, does a 50m or something Kanaxai do anything to help you in battle? Thought not.

And yeah, you're right, my statement didn't really make sense. But, I still stand by my saying that radiants and attunes are bad, and you're better off with health and armor. also, see "Or just go full Survivor/Nightstalkers."

Luminarus · May 18, 2009, 11:55 AM // 11:55

radiant is useful if ur running a spike that requires say 35 energy, and u need to be able to get it off fast enough.

Survivor is better for the rest of it. Nightstalkers is better for if ur constantly attacking.

Bobby2 · May 18, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

All I'm saying is that full Survivor may make sense for PvP, but for PvE I'm hardly convinced that Survivor is better than Nightstalker.

A couple of Monk players I hold in high regard run Disciple's instead of Survivor's in PvP with good arguments to support their choice. I even swapped out my own PvP Survivor gear for Infiltrator's for a while. Just to clarify that I'm not biased in regard to class-specific insignias...

Survivor's vs. Nightstalker's

Scenario *1 - you're the source of SY!. Nightstalker's AL bonus is definitely not to be sniffed at, but the conditional can be really harsh. One stray snare and you'll find yourself wishing for that 40 extra HP.

Scenario *2 - someone else is taking care of SY!. Then, why would you want an AL boost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

radiant is useful if ur running a spike that requires say 35 energy

Dagger builds that require 35e to unload are bad by default.

Super Igor · May 18, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I use full survivors, hp ftw. Can use Nightstalker's too.

RadaArashi · May 18, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I run Radiant on Mask and Shoes, Survivor on the rest. Plus attunement and vitae (and superior vigor obviously) I can reach 600HP and 34 energy.

I prefer it over Nightstalker because it only works while you're attacking, while Survivor is on all the time. This makes you less likely to be targeted by the alpha strike and ignored afterward during the battle by the mob.

Perfected Shadow · May 20, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

TBecause +15 health with Survivor on the chest is equivalent to 3x(+5) health with Survivor on the head, gloves, and boots. Once again, I'm having a hard time following your math. Survivor on chest and Nightstalker on the head, gloves, and boots is equivalent to Nightstalker on chest and Survivor on the head, gloves, and boots, no? They balanced the hit percentages on armor pieces and the health bonuses on Survivor runes for a reason.

Are you saying that the chance to hit on any piece of armor is 1/5? The reason I would put nightstalker's on chest and legs is because iirc the chances of those locations getting hit are 3/8 and 2/8 respectively.

Paul Dawg · May 20, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

The chances of getting hit on a particular piece of armor are not a mystery:

Chest: 3/8
Legs: 2/8
Anywhere else: 1/8 (=3/8 total)

Perfected Shadow · May 21, 2009, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Ok so it's still the same as I remember, and you're right chance to hit on feet/hands/head would be 3/8, same as the the chest. BUT, if I remembered correctly, then non-projectile spells that are mitigated by armor ALWAYS hit the chest, so Nightstalker's on chest is better no?

Found the info: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1156.php
lol 2005, not sure if it still applies today

_Nihilist_ · May 21, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Wrong, Shadow. Non-projectile spells have the same chance as any to hit one of the 5 armor locations.

An easy test is to go outside Fort Ranik and stand in the Renegade Elementalists' Fire Storms. They are AoE non-projectile, and if you have lower armor on one piece, you'll notice when it gets hit.